Coaching for Nonprofit Leaders

Wednesday, October 10, at noon, Eastern Time

Christine Kwak, program director for philanthropy and volunteerism, W.K. Kellogg Foundation. Ms. Kwak has received training as an executive coach.

Michelle Gislason, projects director for leadership services at CompassPoint Nonprofit Services, a San Francisco nonprofit group that provides management advice to charities. Ms. Gislason also works as an executive coach.

A transcript of the chat follows.

Suzanne Perry (Moderator):
    Welcome to today's online chat about executive coaching. My name is Suzanne Perry, senior writer at The Chronicle of Philanthropy. Joining us today are two experts on our topic, Michelle Gislason of CompassPoint Nonprofit Services and Christine Kwak of the W.K. Kellogg Foundation.

Please take this opportunity to ask our guests about challenges you face in your own work -- or any other questions you have about coaches who help people become better leaders and managers.

Let's start the chat!

Question from Mary Genis, certified coach, Sintra Consulting:
    Is there a directory or some other type of listing of experienced coaches who specialize in working with nonprofit leaders? I have experienced difficulty in building awareness of my coaching practice other than through word of mouth. It's effective one-on-one, but when I built my consulting practice, I was invited to have my name included in referral listings. Is there anything similar for coaches in locations outside of northern California?

Michelle Gislason:
    Great question. The only national, nonprofit-specific directory I am currently aware of is Coaches Alliance for Social Action (casanp.org). International Coach Federation also provides a searchable database of coaches (coachfederation.org). While their emphasis tends to be on corporate coaching, you can search their directory for coaches working with nonprofit organizations.

A specific deliverable of the Coaching & Philanthropy Project we are managing is some form of nonprofit coaching directory. This will most likely come out in late 2008/early 2009 and build on or complement the CASA directory.

For people seeking referrals in their region: CompassPoint provides referrals in the San Francisco Bay Area and other regional nonprofit consulting organizations (such as Community Resource Exchange in New York or Executive Service Corps in Chicago) offer coaching services.

Question from Holly Hall, The Chronicle of Philanthropy:
    Christine Kwak: As a coach, what happens when you are confronted by an issue or problem that you honestly don't know how to help the individual handle?

Christine Kwak:
    Holly,

It depends on the nature of the problem. If the problem is best suited for another type of professional support, such as therapy or financial counseling, I will work with my client to identify possible sources of help.

If the nature of the problem is a part of our coaching work, I will work with the individual to be with and dig deeper into the issue to uncover the next step to moving forward. Above all, I believe that the client holds wisdom to find the solution or can discover where to go to help them find it.

Question from Kathryn, HHC Foundation:
    How can those of us that are junior executives and will be the leaders of tomorrow's nonprofits prepare ourselves for the ultimate transition to executive director?

Michelle Gislason:
    You are not alone when you ask this question. CompassPoint and others are looking very deeply into how to best support next generation leaders and we are actually in the process of surveying individuals around the country. Stay tuned for the study, which should be published in early 2008. In the meantime, here are some initial thoughts:

1) Become familiar with the technical side of nonprofit management. This means areas such as governance, strategic planning, financial management, fundraising, and HR. Take workshops, read books, etc.

2) Become familiar with your personal talents and strengths as a leader. This is important for several reasons. First, if you are following a predecessor, know that you will have your own leadership style and it will most likely look very different than theirs (and that's OK)! Second, we've seen a great deal of executives burn out because they try to be experts in all of the management areas I listed above. Get clear on what you *must* know as an ED, get clear on your strengths, and surround yourself with a team that complements you (and you complement them).

3) Develop a personal network of support. We know from our work in the field that solo leadership doesn't work. Find peer groups, mentors, or others who can support you in your leadership role.

4) Become comfortable with asking. Executive directors make requests every day--whether it is for money, time, or resources. Effective executive directors know that by asking for what they need to do their job, they are better able to take care of their organization.

5) Engage in dialogue with leaders from other generations. There is a great deal to be learned from Baby Boomers and/or transitioning executives, just as there is from younger folks entering into executive roles. Building Movement Project has some wonderful monographs on generational transfer of leadership.

Question from Holly Hall, The Chronicle of Philanthropy:
    Christine Kwak: Do you think it is important that executive coaches be certified? Or can a coach without certification be every bit as effective?

Christine Kwak:
    Good question! and one that is being debated right now. My personal opinion is that certification is very important and something that I personally look for when searching for a coach (there are many certification programs and you can learn more on the International Coaching Federation website). We are looking at ways to expand certification opportunities for a wider range of people, so that more are indeed certified (e.g. supporting coaches of color who wish to become certified.

But, what matters to me more than certification is the training and depth/breadth of the experience of the coach. How long have they been coaching? Where have they spent their work life? Are they familiar with the area in which the client is working(e.g. nonprofit sector)? The combination of the coach's experience, training, who they are as a person and finally the "fit" between the coach and client are also very key to a good match between client and coach.

Question from Ryan Crowder, Penfold Theatre Company:
    Hello, I and two other founders are in the process of setting up a nonprofit theatre. We've just started and have yet to incorporate, recruit board members, etc. As executive officer, I'm trying to coordinate productive cooperation, despite the lack of structure at this point. Do have any advice?

Christine Kwak:
    You sound like you're in a very exciting start up position as so many before you who have launched new nonprofits have been---and for which there is a wealth of knowledge and resources which you can tap into.

There are many national, regional, state and local nonprofit organizations who can provide you with great materials and advice. The first place I would start would be to see if you have a state nonprofit association in your state. You can do this by going to the National Council of Nonprofit Association's website (ncna.org) to see if you have a state association. They often offer both materials and training as well as individual expertise. They will also refer you to other sources, I am sure.

In addition, there are national nonprofits, such as BoardSource who can offer a wealth of info.

Finally, my fellow online responder, Michelle, says that there is a good publication by her state association, The Center for Nonprofit Management called "Get Ready. Get Set." at www.cnmsocal.org.

Good luck with your new venture!

Question from Marcia Shackelford, UCLA Anderson School of Management:
    I'm seeking coaching in leadership skills. What's a typical way for a coach to address this?

Michelle Gislason:
    Marcia,

Coaching is a process of supporting you to make more conscious decisions about your professional life. A leadership coach would assist you in learning about yourself, your interpersonal skills, your styles of learning, etc. In the areas of leadership, a coach would work with you around things like identifying personal purpose, setting and articulating vision & goals, communicating effectively, developing others, etc.

Coaching focuses a great deal on the soft skills of leadership and management, so you would need to decide if this is where you need support.

Question from Jude Kaye, Intention to Action, Coaching and Consulting Services:
    One of the challenges I find is that many executive directors (and coaches themselves) don't distinguish between "coaching" and "consulting." For myself, I distinguish them by articulating that "coaching" is one-on-one capacity building for individuals, while "consulting" is capacity building for organizations.

How do others distinguish these "roles"?

Michelle Gislason:
    This is an excellent question. Inherent in consulting is the premise that there is some expert background that the consultant can impart to the client. It is believed that with coaching, the solutions can be found within the individual. The coach's job is to help surface these questions.

I agree with the distinction that coaching is an individual process, however I do know that some folks are engaging in things like "team coaching" which means the team or system is being coached. I'm intrigued by these and hope to learn more. Part of our work with the Coaching & Philanthropy Project is to surface distinctions.

Question from Marc A. Pitman, Fundraisingcoach.com:
    I'll be on the road so I'll miss the October 10th discussion.

I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank Compass Point for the incredible work they are doing in measuring the results of executive coaching for nonprofit executives.

Thank you! Marc

Michelle Gislason:
    Thanks, Marc. I appreciate the feedback.

Question from Amy DeShon, bi-national nonprofit:
    I obtained my job five months ago. Many projects in the works at the beginning [are now]completed. Now, my biggest challenge is with the Board of Directors not being clear on where to go next. What is their responsibilities and what are mine? Do you have recommendations for how to handle this? The board is bi-national and besides two meetings per year, I do not see these people.

Christine Kwak:
    Amy,

I just completed an answer to another question that mirrors yours around Boards and governance of nonprofits. It should be posted by now. It gave two places to start looking --the National Council of Nonprofit Associations to find your own state nonprofit association and the national organization called BoardSource. You can find both on the web. Your local state association can link you to training etc. and BoardSource has great resources for you and your board.

The bi-national and infrequent meetings is a particular situation that you might want to connect with other staff at globally oriented nonprofits. For instance, one our grantees, the Global Fund for Woman, has a board of members from around the world. It might be worth exploring how such nonprofits have organized their governance work and relationship building etc.

Congrats on your new job and best wishes with your future work! Chris

Michelle Gislason:
    Addition to the Marcia Shackelford question: While many coaches use a reflection process, they also use various approaches when working with a client. For example, they may use instrumental coaching, which involves assessment tools (such as Myers Briggs, Enneagram, Conflict Mode Instrument, etc). They may also utilize observational coaching, which involves observing the client in action (at a meeting, giving a presentation, etc). These approaches can be very useful depending upon the goals of the client.

Question from Gloria Miele, Coach and Charter School Board Member:
    Are there grants available for nonprofits to pursue coaching and consulting services for their organizations?

Christine Kwak:
    Gloria,

Good question! There is a small group of funders, including Kellogg, who are exploring this topic of coaching for nonprofit organizations at this time. We have not seen a lot of places where nonprofits can pursue money for coaching services, but we hope that it will grow. We have given a few over the last few years as a part of our exploration of this area, but are not set up to do so on a regular basis. My colleague online, Michelle, may have some advice on this as she has been more actively working on this as a part of the Coaching and Philanthropy project.

Question from Gloria Miele, Coach and Charter School Board Member:
    Are there grants available for nonprofits to pursue coaching and consulting services for their organizations?

Michelle Gislason:
    Gloria --

More and more funders are providing funding for leadership development, consulting services and/or coaching. Some will even provide small, restricted professional development or capacity-building grants.

The first place to start is with your current funders. Ask if they would invite a proposal for a leadership development or capacity-building grant. You can also research funders in your area through organizations like The Foundation Center. If you want to make a case for funding something like coaching, it's a good idea to provide some research on return on investment in your proposal. You can access CompassPoint's study on our website at www.compasspoint.org and also download the Coaching & Philanthropy overview, which shows that other funders are supporting coaching.

Additionally, many funders are starting to see the value in core operating support. This type of support allows you to invest in the infrastructure and leadership of your organization. I always encourage people to ask their funders if they would consider this.

Question from Susan Furgeson, Blue River Community Foundation:
    Are executive coaches typically more for strategic planning, big-picture assistance, or more for day-in, day-out time management, employee-management skills, or both?

Christine Kwak:
    Susan --

Great question! Many times people wonder what is the difference between a consultant and a coach. There are many opinions and different answers to this question.

My own explanation when people ask me this question--from my own experience--is that a consultant usually comes in to help an organization or executive by both thinking with and DOING the work for an organization--be it long range/strategic planning or other organization development work--and usually involves specific product deliverables etc. A coach usually comes in to work with an individual, a group of individuals or an entire organization to assist those people in doing their own work--be it exploring possibility, working on effectiveness issues, thinking outside the box, learning to incorporate coaching skills in their work etc. They could be key in opening new creative frontiers in strategic planning and big picture thinking.

I use the word "usually" as both coaches and consultants can step out of stereotypical boxes and be effective in organization development. It depends specifically on what you want.

Question from Rachel, Global Fund for Women:
    Executive coaching can be prohibitively expensive, especially for emerging and young leaders in the nonprofit sector. Are there any funding sources available to provide coaching for nonprofit leadership and for those newer to the field or lower in the organizational hierarchy?

Michelle Gislason:
    Hi Rachel,

I just answered a question similar to this, so hopefully it will show up. Yes, funders are increasingly supporting coaching. As part of the Coaching & Philanthropy Project, we are also exploring ways to increase accessibility to coaching.

Many coaches do offer pro bono coaching to nonprofit organizations. However, regardless of whether or not a coach charges, you should do a thorough screening to ensure it's a match for you.

As to your question about coaching for those newer to the field or lower in the organizational hierarchy -- I personally see leadership as a process, not just a position of authority (such as the ED role), so I encourage funders and organizations to invest in leadership beyond the top management positions.

Question from Gloria Corellano, Leadership Coach:
    I worked in the nonprofit field for nearly 20 years and have since established a coaching and consulting practice. One of the most difficult approaches to have nonprofits buy into the concept of coaching relates to the financial burden and how to obtain funds in an already financially distressed environment. I have utilized the CompassPoint study released last year but would like some advice to assist nonprofit leaders in obtaining funding for leadership or executive coaching.

Michelle Gislason:
    Gloria,

This question has come up a couple time on this discussion, so hopefully you will see something that is helpful regarding funding sources.

While there is certainly the reality of under-resourced and over-burdened organizations, I find it curious that professional development is usually the first to go when budgets need re-visiting. My hope is that we can talk about this "culture of scarcity/sacrifice" that seems to exist in our sector.

Question from Holly Hall, The Chronicle of Philanthropy:
    Michelle Gislason: What type of charity leader tends to benefit the most from professional coaching? What are the problems they tend to bring to the coach?

Michelle Gislason:
    This requires a slightly longer answer...The majority of people who contact us for coaching are nonprofit executive directors and managers who are dealing with any number of leadership or management goals and challenges. Specific examples include: awareness of personal strengths and leadership styles, interpersonal skills development (such as communication, feedback, or conflict management), delegation, time management, prioritization, etc.

We've found that coaching can be extremely helpful when it complements management functions such as strategic planning, fundraising planning or board development work. This is where a lot of the above skills need to be called upon. For example, CompassPoint's study on executive coaching indicated that coaching supported executive directors in staff/board alignment with mission and vision.

A good deal of executives also call simply because they are experiencing burnout or isolation in their positions and are seeking ways to reduce stress, create networks of support, or establish a greater sense of work/life balance.

Finally, we are beginning to receive more calls from transitioning executives (who are seeking coaching around "what's next" and "letting go" as they transition out of their organizations), emerging leaders asking how they can lead from where they are, and board members who are seeking support in their own leadership roles.

If you're interested in reading more about the impact of coaching, CompassPoint's Executive Coaching Study can be downloaded for free from our coaching section at www.compasspoint.org.

Question from Gloria Corellano, Leadership Coach:
    Michelle, If you are interested in "team coaching" I had the best instructor at Georgetown, Alex Caillet. I'll be happy to provide you with his website information, full of resources. I have enjoyed team coaching quite well as it is a challenging process, whereby the leader is coached in "real time" and the group process is also coached. Best facilitation is with two coaches but it becomes quite expensive.

Michelle Gislason:
    Gloria,

Thanks for this. I will add it to our list. I do know that more and more resources on team coaching are beginning to emerge.

Question from Veronica Conway, Black Professional Coaches Alliance:
    Hello Chris Kwak,

Great to see you engaging in this forum. What is your perspective about how the philanthropic and nonprofit world is embracing coaching? Is it starting to be widely embraced, or is there caution about adopting this technology?

Christine Kwak:
    Veronica,

Great to hear from you and I hope you and the work of the Black Professional Coaches Alliance is going well!

I remember in the early meetings you were a part of -- we had said that we believed that this concept was in the early stages of understanding and use by the nonprofit and philanthropic sector. That still is the case, but we are seeing a growing interest, especially by nonprofits and also by coaches interested in working with nonprofits. Through affinity groups like Grantmakers for Effective Organizations, we have seen increased interest in coaching as a part of leadership development for nonprofit executives and staff. Nonetheless, there are barriers out there such as lack of time and resources on the part of nonprofits and small track record and research on the effectiveness with nonprofits. I think that there is still caution in light of the many needs of nonprofit organizations at this time--still---there is interest in learning more.

There are several funders who are supporting a Coaching and Philanthropy project being led by CompassPoint NonProfit Services in San Francisco that involved coaches, nonprofits and philanthropy. My colleague, Michelle Gislason, can tell you more should you wish to contact her. Good luck in your work! Chris

Question from Marcia Shackelford, UCLA Anderson:
    A followup, tactical question: What time commitment is this? For example, do people typically meet with coaches once a month? And for how many months? I know the answer will vary by what the expected outcome is, but what is typical?

Michelle Gislason:
    Marcia,

The number of coaching session can vary depending upon your personal and professional goals. However, CompassPoint recommends that people contract with a coach for three months and agree to a range of 12-15 hours. Some people do more, some less. Most people meet with their coaches weekly (either in person or over the phone) for an hour or an hour and a half. We recommend a three-month contract because it is a good amount of time to establish your goals and development plan, work the plan with your coach, and then re-visit at the end of three months. From there, you can re-contract. The re-contracting time is a wonderful opportunity to see how the coaching is working for you.

Question from Kathy Walgren, non-profit CEO:
    So many "baby boomer" nonprofit founders or long time leaders are retiring or asked to leave. How can coaching help this process and transition to new leadership roles?

Christine Kwak:
    Kathy,

You've put your finger on a particular niche in the coaching field. There are many coaches who help folks in this position as a specialty. They are often called transition coaches, or career coaches etc. Check out the International Coaching Federation website to learn more, or the Coaches Training Institute who know about special interest groups organized by various niche groups in the coaching arena. Chris

Question from Holly Hall, The Chronicle of Philanthropy:
    What is the most interesting or unusual experience you have had as a coach?

Michelle Gislason:
    I find myself constantly surprised by my coaching clients. Whether it is a bold decision they've made or a new way of approaching their work with people. I'd have to say one of the most rewarding experiences was seeing one of my clients take on a very political and controversial situation that received a lot of media attention. To see her on television handling tough questions with ease and conviction was really fun.

Question from Christopher Scott, United Way:
    Any thoughts on how strict to be with your workers as far as what time they should be at the office in the morning, and what time they should leave?

Should we implement a strict policy saying they need to be here at 8:00 AM and leave at 4:30 PM? Or is it best to be a little more flexible? Thanks.

Michelle Gislason:
    Christopher,

My answer may not be what you're looking for because it is, "it depends." What type of culture are you trying to create in your organization? How capable and committed is your team to doing the work? Are your organizational objectives being met (in other words, is the work getting done)? Many offices have a flexible structure because they have highly motivated and capable employees who can handle the responsibilities of a flexible schedule. Other offices do not.

As a supervisor, I would encourage you to think about what a successful and productive working environment looks like and then explain this very clearly to your team and encourage dialogue. What is important is that your team knows exactly what is expected of them and that there are systems to support those expectations. This way, there are no surprises if you come back and say, "we agreed on an 8am start and you have come in to work between 8:30 and 9am three times this week". I hope this is helpful.

Question from Allan E. Jimenez, small non-profit:
    As I consider moving into the leadership role of another nonprofit, what are some of the pitfalls that I should avoid/try to avoid?

Christine Kwak:
    Allan,

Now this is a question that books are written about ---it's a great one, but unfortunately, I can't begin to do it justice on this on-line chat. I admire your learning approach to your work. We could all use more reflection in our work lives.

I would recommend connecting with your local state nonprofit association (which you can find by going to the Nat. Center for Nonprofit Association website) and see what they have to offer for executive directors of nonprofits and the topic of leadership in general. You might also explore the specific nature of working with small nonprofits. There are many good books on the subject as well as workshops and conferences. Independent Sector might be another place to check out--their conference has many opportunities for leaders of nonprofits. I have worked in many and they are a specific type of organization.

Good luck in your next move! Chris

Question from Virginia, service provider organization (PA):
    There are many providers of training for executive coaches. Is there training (or training providers) specifically tailored to individuals who have an interest in becoming an executive coach for the nonprofit community?

Christine Kwak:
    Virginia, Good question. This is an emerging area for the coaching field in terms of formal training although many coaches and coaches training programs apply training material to both nonprofit and for profit settings.

We have been working on the subject of coaching and philanthropy with a coaching firm called Leadership That Works, who is offering specific training on the subject -- I believe they have some workshops coming up. If you contact Virginia Kellogg at LTW (no relation to the Kellogg Foundation, by the way)--she can offer more information. (Look up on web) CompassPoint Nonprofit Services also is doing a lot with coaching in the nonprofit sector. You can contact Michelle Gislason for more info. good luck-- Chris

Question from Kate Johnson, AOSA:
    So. . . to speak to the topic, how can coaching and other techniques can help nonprofit leaders cope with the challenges of their jobs -- and balance their professional and personal responsibilities?

Christine Kwak:
    Kate,

The micro answer, as we're out of time, is that it provides a strong and honest "guide on the side" who supports the nonprofit leader to tackle whatever subject they wish to become more effective, fulfilled, etc. and to make tangible progress and decisions that lead to positive change.

See my posting about the organizations Leadership That Works (Virginia K.) to get a long tenured coach's perspective on the subject--one who has worked with nonprofits a long time--or see the reports by Compass Institute on nonprofit coaching and the difference it made for nonprofit executive directors. There are lots of quotes in there to give you examples. chris

Question from Jeremy Pearce, small nonprofit:
    What are some ways used by past clients to introduce the concept of exec-coaching to an organization's leadership?

Christine Kwak:
    Kate,

Jeremy, Start small and don't oversell. I have used sharing articles on the subject, sharing my own experience, sharing studies like the one done at CompassPoint Non Profit Services on nonprofit coaching(see their website)and if interested, arranging for a free sample coaching session for anyone interested (match with coaches I know.) Chris chris

Suzanne Perry (Moderator):
    I'm afraid our time is up for today. This is obviously a subject of great interest to people in the nonprofit world! Thanks to everyone who submitted questions and to Michelle and Christine for taking the time to answer them.

A transcript of the conversation will be posted on this page shortly. If you have any questions about The Chronicle or suggestions on how we can serve you better, please write to us at editor@philanthropy.com.